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 Post subject: 26" hardtail Ragley Piglet in the making - guidance needed.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:29 am 
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Posts: 551
Location: Chelmsford
It is in fact the bike is for my 9yr (going 15) old son who has now outgrown his 24" Pinnacle which only in October was ugraded with 24" Spinner 80mm Air Fork with lockout, wider fat bars/stem and thumb gear shifters. Could have stayed under 9yrs for another year.

Anyway, back to the topic, I have bought 14" Piglet frame. He likes riding the Common, easy drops and bomb holes, so I went for a more aggressive geometry, slacker than standard hence the Piglet choice. The fact that it came in orange, the piglet with a dummy, the eyes on the saddle just sold it to him in seconds. Since I have never worked on a bike before other than those minor upgrades above (and bought my own first MTB back in September), my knowledge is very limited.

This is what I have:

Frame - Ragley Piglet.

Head Angle: 67 Deg
BB Shell: 73mm

Headset: 44mm Standard
 so I can use any type of fork with the correct headset.
Seatstay post mounted disc brake mount (Max rotor 180mm)
ISCG 05 Tabs for the chain guide
Recommended fork travel: 120/130mm with external bottom cup – 140/150mm with internal bottom cup
Max Tyre Size: 2.5”
Rear Spacing : 135mm QR

I have now ordered the seatpost, handlebar, stem, saddle all matching Ragley but these are in blue (just following the orders). http://www.ragleybikes.com/ragley-components. Thats it with Ragley parts now. Done with the easy bits.

Where I am struggling to make a decision is the crankset/drivetrain. I prefer the simplicity of 1x10 option but with 28/30T rather than 32T. Less cables, less weight, less money to spend but I worry he may struggle without the occasional granny ring option on the uphill so 2x10 also comes to mind.

- Is it possible that I can always take out the 28/30T ring and add 2 rings (36/22) if required?
- Shall I go for 1x10 for simplicity or 2x10 for functionality?
- The crankset (104mm spider) should be compatible either way. Is this the best approach?

Other difficulty is that I need cranks not longer than 165mm so group options are limited. Most groupsets come with 170-175mm cranks so I will have to buy the crankset separately. I found a 2013 E*thirteen crankset (no ring) with BB included for £140 (RPP 260). A bargain which I would have bought it for my own bike but is it a silly price for a kid's bike? Still tempted though. Other alternatives are Shimano Zee set as it comes in 165mm. So does the Shimano Saint crankset too.

My main question is - is ZEE groupset suitable for this bike's use? I see is more of a DH component but the pricing is tempting. Better alternatives, Saint for example.

Phew...did not realise the length of this message till now. Sorry lads!
Attachments:
2014-03-19 16.00.18-1a.jpg
2014-03-19 16.00.18-1a.jpg [ 140.08 KiB | Viewed 860 times ]

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MTB cos other sports require only 1 ball


Last edited by Whytey on Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 26" hardtail Ragley Piglet in the making - guidance need
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:59 pm 
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Location: Cake shop
I went through the same head scratching when thinking about the cranks for my sons bike.

Not bought the bits yet but...

After chatting with friends who's kids are just a bit older....

Zee a bit on the heavy side for kids bike.
No option to go 2 by 10 if need.
I looked at the 5mm difference between a 165mm and 170mm crank on a ruler ( or even 175 ) ;)
He had a go on a bike with 175mm cranks and was fine, he's 138cm tall.
170mm cranks and some thicker pedals.... 165mm cranks :)
How long will it take for his legs to grow by 5mm... not long if his school trousers are anything to go by...

Conclusion I came to... 170mm Deore or 175mm if it made any difference to the cost.

Other option.... but XT for your bike and move what ever you've got on to his ;)


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 Post subject: Re: 26" hardtail Ragley Piglet in the making - guidance need
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:55 pm 
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Posts: 551
Location: Chelmsford
Hmm, if I ditch the 165mm idea then the Deore makes sense costwise. So does your last sentence :D . It did cross my mind if I had to take the 2x10 option but at 175mm I worried it the cranks would be too long. He may be alright for a while but on long-ish rides may make a difference. Its a 2cm wider rotation from 165mm.

I will get the fork, headset and the wheelset next so this is out of the way, I will give the groupset more thinking.

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 Post subject: Re: 26" hardtail Ragley Piglet in the making - guidance need
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:34 pm 
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Posts: 551
Location: Chelmsford
bugeye wrote:
170mm cranks and some thicker pedals.... 165mm cranks :)


I missed this earlier...I like your thinking. Chunky Wellgo?

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 Post subject: Re: 26" hardtail Ragley Piglet in the making - guidance need
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:10 pm 
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Location: Cake shop
Must admit the pedal comment was a bit tongue in cheek and hadn't thought about the doubling of the stoke from top to bottom. Thinking about it more that difference the thicker pedal makes at the bottom works the opposite way at the top... so scratch that idea :(

What I'm really saying is that if 5mm ( or 10mm ) difference in the crank length isn't going to make that much, if any, real world difference. As long as the saddle height is correct lifting his knee by 1cm more or less at the top of the pedal stroke shouldn't be an issue :) If that 1cm extra lift on his knee is a problem it probably means that there are other bigger issues with the bike sizing.

I ummed and ahhed about this too until at Swinley with a friend we took the seat post out of his daughters Inbred and let my son ride it. All he was interested in was how much better the bike was that his 24" ridgeback... He didn't notice 1cm on the cranks.

The other thing to remember is that you won't be able to get the bars that low, he'll land up quite upright on the bike... gives a bit more knee room too ;)


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 Post subject: Re: 26" hardtail Ragley Piglet in the making - guidance need
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:33 pm 
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Posts: 551
Location: Chelmsford
Of course it wont work, what was I thinking. Must have been watching Dumb & Dumber while replying.

OK, maybe I am worrying too much about nothing. About the bars, I got the riser one rather than flat and 30mm stem i plan to leave the steerer tube about an inch longer until he finds the right position.

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 Post subject: Re: 26" hardtail Ragley Piglet in the making - guidance need
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:42 am 
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Posts: 1262
Location: Ockendon
Interesting - I've just built (or will have by the end of the week) a Kona Fire Mountain for my 11 year old son as his first 26" bike.

Here's the spec:

Kona Fire Mountain frame - 16"

DT Swiss 4450 Rims
DT Swiss 370 Hubs

2012 RockShox Reba RL Duel Air, 100mm with remote lockout

Zee 1x10 Trigger
Zee Shadow+ Wide Range
SLX 11-36t Cassette

Deore 10 SPd Double Crankset (only want arms so why pay more)
E Thirteen Narrow Wide 32t Chain ring

Need to decide on pedals but other than that I think his 1 x 10 set-up will be a cool little ride ;)

David

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 Post subject: Re: 26" hardtail Ragley Piglet in the making - guidance need
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:46 am 
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Posts: 1262
Location: Ockendon
I went with the Zee free ride set-up as I wanted to keep it simple and after watching him at Bedgebury and seeing that he never came out of his middle ring (32t) I thought If I went with a 1 x 10 set-up that gave him a wider range on the cassette that he would be good to go...

After speaking with some mates I decided to go with the best forks I could find and to save as much weight as I could on them...

He loves the Kona as it is now but I know he's going to love the pimped version...

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 Post subject: Re: 26" hardtail Ragley Piglet in the making - guidance need
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:43 pm 
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Posts: 551
Location: Chelmsford
Thanks David, thats helpful stuff.

I was looking at the Raceface n&w rings too. I reckon 32T is the best compromise even though I was tempted to go for a slightly smaller but there aren't many around. Considering he is moving from a 7 speed cassette to a 10 speed one I think he will be well pleased with the gear range.

About the fork, its probably the most important part so it would be nice to find a decent fork (but at a bargain price). One question though, with this frame I have the option to use a 120/130mm with external cup or 140/150mm with an internal cup. What would you do? The usage will be more trail riding than XC. The problem is that a long travel fork will take me well over my current £200/220 budget. is it worth the stretch?

CRC sells a number of 120mm Manitou forks heavily discounted, I can hardly find much info on them so I am a little hesitant. There is also a 2012 Fox Suspension 32 Float FIT RLC @ £270. As you can see, I am bad at making decisions.

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 Post subject: Re: 26" hardtail Ragley Piglet in the making - guidance need
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:04 pm 
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Posts: 1262
Location: Ockendon
If it were me I wouldn't worry about anything with more than 100mm of travel for the fork. Weight is the key and air rather than coil.

Then you have to think our sons won't even meet the min weight for the shocks anyway - so 100mm air, with a custom set-up should be more than good enough.

The Reba RL's that I got cost me £130 off ebay and look mint.

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 Post subject: Re: 26" hardtail Ragley Piglet in the making - guidance need
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:07 pm 
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Posts: 1262
Location: Ockendon
Here you go dude - £100:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rockshox-Reco ... 338c3d5828

Depending on where you are they'll be well worth a visit being in Benfleet ;)

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 Post subject: Re: 26" hardtail Ragley Piglet in the making - guidance need
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:58 pm 
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Posts: 551
Location: Chelmsford
Thanks David for the tips about the fork. Yes of course, definitely Air. The reason I went for 120 instead of 100 is that the price is the same in most models. I thought there is no harm in having the extra travel. Makes sense about the travel size. No justification for going longer than 120mm.

I have ordered the wheels QR15mm through axle so the fork I was after was a QR15 ideally. I like the price though. Are Manitou any good? £160 new in CRC. Browsing Ebay I came across this Reckon Gold ebay no. 360877368631

I will go for cheaper arms and a decent n&w ring as you suggested. Just the fork & headset, drivetrain, brakes left.

The rest of Ragley pieces came through. I saved £120 on the frame so practically I got all these for free. Getting there slowly.
Attachments:
2014-03-24 19.14.07a.jpg
2014-03-24 19.14.07a.jpg [ 158.19 KiB | Viewed 775 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: 26" hardtail Ragley Piglet in the making - guidance need
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:09 am 
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Looking really good, you and Dave have two lucky boys!

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http://tinyurl.com/okyhpdg


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 Post subject: Re: 26" hardtail Ragley Piglet in the making - guidance need
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:15 am 
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Posts: 1262
Location: Ockendon
Nice looking kit ;)

Have never had Manitou - but VW-Surfbum must have... so I'll let him give you his thoughts on them. In my mind I can't see they'd be too far wrong - as I say they aren't adults and won't be giving the bikes the pounding we might.

And I have Recon Gold on my 29er and I think they are fine.

David

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 Post subject: Re: 26" hardtail Ragley Piglet in the making - guidance need
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:07 am 
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Posts: 4987
Manitou's i've had a few ;)
Ideal for kids and pretty light in air form, not so great for big lumps like me, i destroyed the innerds of my last pair.

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